Matt Matheny, Charlotte Smith, and Jon Scheyer

[Elon15]

Ok here goes. Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm a recent graduate and in the spirit of March Madness have been doing some thinking about the contrasting success of our women’s and men’s basketball programs. In six season, Charlotte Smith has led the women’s team to two WNIT appearances and an NCAA tournament (a first for an Elon basketball team). In eight seasons, Matt Matheny has led the men’s team to a single tournament (the CBI!! – don’t get me started on how a team featuring Jack, Troutman, Beaumont, and Koch didn’t even make it to a conference tourney final! – all those guys have played professionally  ). Charlotte Smith is a rising star in the women’s basketball coaching circles. Matt Matheny is not known in the men’s basketball coaching circles. Our women’s team has shown the ability to develop players over four years. Our men’s team...not so much. The Elon women’s team is turning into a perennial championship contender in the CAA. The men’s basketball team is turning into a perennial contender for the 4/5th seed (at best!) in the CAA. To put is simple the Women’s team is exciting and full of potential and the men’s team is the definition of mediocre. It starts with the coach.

Dave Blank’s best decision as AD was hiring Coach Smith. So let’s sit back and think what would happen if we did something similar for the men’s team. Let Matheny go and find a Coach Smith-type for the mens team. Charlotte Smith was a former star college basketball player, returned to college basketball as an assistant for a major program, and had NC roots. She was hired as a younger head coach and in her first time as a Head Coaching position. So let’s try this exercise for the men’s team. My thought is Jon Scheyer. Big name, NC ties, and cutting his teeth learning from Coach K. Would he accept? Who knows. But this is the way Elon needs to think if it wants to be successful. Let’s say we could get him or something like him. Best case? Scheyer brings Elon to an NCAA tournament or two, turns us into a CAA contender, and then leaves after 3-4 years to a bigger program. Worst case? Scheyer is too young/sucks at coaching and he returns to the end of the bench for Coach K, we finish at the bottom of the CAA standings (the drop from 4 to 10 is immaterial) and Elon gets national attention for hiring/firing Scheyer (wouldn’t be the first time Duke basketball brought Elon national attention  ). Point is that continued mediocrity is failure.

Thoughts? Am I crazy?

[fc97]

Scheyer is not from NC and any claims to NC ties is loose at best.

[rollphoenix]

OK so Elon15 clearly didn't think through all of the details but the overall idea makes sense. Following the blueprint that the Women's team developed, why don't we take a look at UNC's coaching staff specifically Hubert Davis. I know Roy is getting up there in age but in the meantime why don't we have Davis come over and coach the Phoenix to an NCAA tournament before he returns to his alma mater to take over.

People may ask "Don't we want someone here for the long term?" Sure I get that, but I think developing a culture of winning will only breed more success. Look at some of the more successful mid-major programs (Butler, VCU) and how they have continued to find success and reach the NCAA tournament despite coaching turnover. This is because of the winning culture that exist at each of these programs. Everyone knows that most mid-major coaching jobs are simply stepping stones to more recognized programs, so why don’t we take advantage of a young, up-and-coming coach that can instill a winning culture upon the program on his way up to a bigger opportunity. If he’s not successful, at least we are doing something rather than settling for mediocrity.

[elonpride]

First, welcome.

Agree with FC97, claiming NC ties is pretty loose.

We need to give Matheny 2 years in all honesty. The school will be going from having one of the SMALLEST "arenas" in DI men's basketball, to a stellar facility. That's going to be a good recruiting tool. I think at the moment, Elon has the 8th smallest gym in the country.

The men's team will find more consistency next year. Only losing 3 seniors with just one of those seeing big playing time is big.

[rollphoenix]

I understand that the new basketball arena will be a great recruiting tool, but to me that implies that Matheny with a new arena will miraculously become a better recruiter. I for one don't necessarily think his recruiting is the issue. It seems like there is no player development over the course of their 4 years at Elon. We have had several players come through during the Matheny era that went on to play professional ball and yet the ceiling for this program has been a SoCon semifinal appearance. (I don't want to discuss regular season finishes since the are irrelevant when discussing the ultimate goal for this program -- an NCAA tournament berth) An new stadium doesn't necessarily solve those woes.

[Dougie]

I agree with the folks like roll and Elon15, but I am very aggressive in terms of how I feel the program needs to operate. I can understand how others don't share that passion and sense of urgency. It isn't for everyone and some people are satisfied with decent teams every now and again. Quite frankly, that is the way the administration feels also I think. Heck, we won't accept CIT or CBI bids to grow the program.

Yes, the team "could" be good next year, but what about the next one or the 5 after that. To win at a school like Elon, you need an aggressive coach who will challenge the norms and be relentless in the pursuit of better. I am certain Matheny is not that person, albeit a seemingly wonderful representative of the program.

[euphoenix99]

Not a lot more to say about Charlotte Smith that hasn’t already been said. She’s done an amazing job and Elon is lucky to have her. We can only hope that her offseason international coaching opportunities combined with the Elon job have her feeling like she’s getting the best opportunities as a coach. She really is awesome and I hope she hangs around for a while.

Regarding Matheny, I tend to be more in the camp of him being a better coach than recruiter. It’s not that he can’t and hasn’t recruited great players, it’s just that he never seems to recruit a complete team. He certainly has his system and certain players fit that system, but that style and players don’t lend themselves to a big run through a conference tournament. William & Mary is very similar and still has yet to win one. It’s hard when you are stacked up against quick, athletic and deep teams for 3 days in a row. Can’t afford to whiff on recruits either, which we’ve seen our fair share of. As was routinely pointed out this season, there was a significant drop off after the starting 5. Maybe 2 deep on the bench, if even that.

At some point if this team can’t get over the hump you have to make some changes to try and change the culture. Finishing 3-4 games over .500 is great, but it can’t be the ultimate end goal. I suspect Matheny will get as long as he wants though. He’s a good representative of Elon and well respected.

Next year will be telling for me. Another first game exit in the CAA tournament can't happen.

Go Phoenix!

[elonpride]

Mar 23, 2017 12:51:33 GMT -5 rollphoenix said:

I understand that the new basketball arena will be a great recruiting tool, but to me that implies that Matheny with a new arena will miraculously become a better recruiter. I for one don't necessarily think his recruiting is the issue. It seems like there is no player development over the course of their 4 years at Elon. We have had several players come through during the Matheny era that went on to play professional ball and yet the ceiling for this program has been a SoCon semifinal appearance. (I don't want to discuss regular season finishes since the are irrelevant when discussing the ultimate goal for this program -- an NCAA tournament berth) An new stadium doesn't necessarily solve those woes.

Well, fans here seem to be all over the board with expectations, couch coaching and programs.

Nothing "new" is going to solve all woes, period.....be it a new arena, new coach, new players, new AD or new president. What the school has to focus on is getting the best players that fit the academic mission, give them a great education and make sure they are prepared with knowledge for life after graduation.

[Deleted]

When you have a president that sees the new Schar center as a great place to hold the graduation ceremony, and a potential place to hold a presidential debate before he sees it as a sports facility, well, that speaks for itself. Matheny will be here as long as he wants regardless of his W-L record. I certainly hope the new president appreciates sports. What is the possibility of getting Mr. Schar on the Board of Trustees?

[BrownBag]

Allow Coach Matheny a few years to recruit with a new gym as a selling point. Right now, you are playing in a cracker box that lots of high school kids played in bigger gyms than it.

Once the new gym gets built, Matheny should be able to land better recruits. He is always going to recruit good kids to represent Elon.

Personally, I think he needs to add recruiters to his staff, but the problem with that is, who are you recruiting? You are recruiting the clean cut kids that will be able to make it in the classroom and who has no issues off the court. I don't know if a guy is a "recruiter" he wants to try to sell to those type of kids.

It is hard to compete against UNCW, Charleston, ect when they will take any kid (academic risk, character issues, jucos, ect). They will ALWAYS have more athletic teams.

So the question you have to ask yourself is, do you want a team full of kids who have no business taking Elon courses, who may do some shady stuff off court and embarrass Elon?

Look at App State, they have a former Davidson coach as well. App. State is similar to Charleston/UNCW, they will take anyone they can get. They also have players getting arrested with weed, suspended multiple times within the season then transferring.

If you want the junk that comes along with the talent, go ahead and fire Matheny and HOPE (it isn't a given) that you make it to the NCAA Tournament.

Be ready to defend the off court actions, the questionable past of recruits being brought in, if you want to go that path. Matheny will never go that route but still may get Elon to the big dance.

[elonpride]

BrownBag,

You hit on a point that I started typing, then decided not to post. When thinking about the athletic programs, players and coaches, one must also think of them as brand ambassadors. These are folks that represent the school, students, alumni and themselves on fairly large stages. Matheny is a great brand ambassador, and every young man on the team seems reciprocate it.

Think about success, and what it means for minute. Also think about some schools out there that sellout the brand in efforts to be successful. It can hurt image in the long run. When you think of Baylor football, what is the first thing that comes to mind? Scandal. Now, think about what a brand truly is. A brand isn't a slogan, moniker, logo, name or person. A brand is top of mind thinking and emotional connection to it.

Our school has a great brand. Matheny has done a good job of managing it through his program, even with conference changes. Give him a couple more years, and you'll be impressed.

I'm proud of how hard the teams plays. I'm proud of the success rate Matheny has graduating players at our fine school. Would it be nice to see more wins, trip to the big dance? You betcha! But I don't want the brand of the school tarnished in order to get there.

[ncjon]

I'm tempted to go find my post from a year ago on this same topic and just cut and paste it. 

I'll make the same basic points though. There are two important things I see here. First, I think Matheny isn't just trying to build a winner, but he's trying to create a culture of excellence around the program. That takes time. It reminds me of the work Bob McKillop did at Davidson and Barry Collier did at Butler in the 1990s. I point to those two programs because when those coaches arrived on their respective campuses in the fall of 1989, both schools were in very similar positions to Elon when Matheny arrived in 2009. 

Second, the significant step up in competition with the move to the CAA in 2014 cannot be discounted. This year's freshmen class is the only one that was fully recruited to play at that level. And that was before plans for the Schar Center existed with Elon having the smallest, least impressive facilities in the league. The Schar Center should make a significant difference on that front. 

I want an excellent men's basketball program at Elon. I also think Matheny has the program headed in the right direction, has laid the foundation and deserves at least two more seasons to see the results of that before any serious evaluation of whether or not he should be the coach occurs. 

Comparing the men's and women's programs is comparing apples and oranges. 

Jon Scheyer as the head coach is borderline laughable, as is Hubert Davis. They both make roughly the same amount of money as Matheny in their assistant coach roles. Davis was brought in to get training and essentially be the coach-in-waiting for Roy's retirement, whenever that comes. Scheyer is so green that he would need an experienced former head coach as one of his assistants, and I'm not sure Elon could afford to pay that. 

[Nyfan]

This coach wants a three point shooting center. Troutman was a talent wasted at Elon. Coach m should seek rugged rebounders to complement his shooters. This coach has refused to develope out f bounds plays. Over the last few years included the big four class have faded not grown. One more year for this coach then let's open the shar with new hope

[Deleted]

Christian Hairston was another player that failed to develop. He's been one of the most athletic players we've had with a boatload of potential. His best year was his freshman year. He's leaving a worse player than he arrived. Athletes and big talent don't do well at Elon. You have to commit completely and wholly to the system, which essentially takes individual talent and athleticism out of the equation. Tyler Seibring is an example of the perfect Elon player. He's moderately athletic, that is you won't see him throw down a monster dunk, but he can mostly make a lay up in the paint and is reliable around the foul line and the elbow. He has good stats from beyond the arc, as long as he's open, but has trouble creating his own shots from there. This year Brian Dawkins is that same model of player.

Honestly, if you can keep Santa Ana out of foul trouble and consistent in his shooting, cut Thompson loose every once in a while by letting him drive the pant & kick out or make the play, along with Seibring and Dawkins you have 4 starters that are capable of winning a conference championship with a good point guard that can pass the ball and not commit too many turnovers. Swoope is decent but needs to gain maturity and judgement.

Our bench is what scares me. We need a few more Thompsons and Seibrings to fill in.