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UNCG
Dec 8, 2017 19:47:08 GMT -5
Post by phightingphoenix1 on Dec 8, 2017 19:47:08 GMT -5
I truly don't understand the regression, in light of starters returning. You would think they would be stronger, tougher, smarter, more savvy, hungrier.... but, this is setting up eerily much like 2013-2014 season. I'm confident that coaches and players will get it figured out - right?
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UNCG
Dec 8, 2017 21:39:56 GMT -5
Post by robert on Dec 8, 2017 21:39:56 GMT -5
Six foot eight center shooting three pointers and elon has no strong rebounders. Often small shooters given rebounding responsibilities. This doesn’t work. Davidson has bigger people so they have some success..recruit bigger people who can rebound. Metheny must change,recruit bigger or go away. Uncg game pitiful with coaching staff unable to connect with team.kept game plan when it was failing. Change—-zone press dump ball inside. Get the fighting Christians fighting again
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UNCG
Dec 8, 2017 22:58:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by fc4life on Dec 8, 2017 22:58:50 GMT -5
Given the fact that we've got a volleyball coach that's 13-52 in conference the past 4 seasons and a women's soccer coach that is 6-24-6 in the CAA and both are still here means Matheny is probably viewed as successful by Blank. He's definitely better than Nestor, but it's clear he has a ceiling. I also don't get the loyalty thing to Matheny. I think most just like him as a person, so it's tough to want him gone. Let's face it though, if he was having success and McKillop retired, he'd be gone in a heartbeat. So not sure why we should feel any commitment on our end. I assume this UNCG game was a front end of a home and home, so hopefully they don't come in and repeat this in the brand new Schar Center next year. Go Phoenix! Your comments about our pathetic performances in Volleyball and Soccer are spot on. We’ve settled for mediocre coaching jobs in those two Sports is maddening. Brutal. I’ve felt the same thing. How do they keep their jobs!
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UNCG
Dec 9, 2017 16:49:18 GMT -5
Post by Tommy Boy on Dec 9, 2017 16:49:18 GMT -5
I truly don't understand the regression, in light of starters returning. You would think they would be stronger, tougher, smarter, more savvy, hungrier.... but, this is setting up eerily much like 2013-2014 season. I'm confident that coaches and players will get it figured out - right? Comment on 2013-2014 Elon team compared to 2017-2018 team? I thought I would breaking down and compare each position. (Actually took more time than I wanted after I started) Coach- Same As for Coach Matheny, I enjoy cheering for the student/athletes he brings to the University. I find them to be easy to cheer for. I understand players aren't usually pro prospects. I do find myself wishing he would gamble once every four years to bring in a tattooed Duke like character risk to blend with his core recruits? Usually only during the game do I have these thoughts. Then I realize children are on campus and understand character is probably the better option for Elon. Coach Matheny runs a legit college program. I would want my son to play for him. (push) PG Jack I/Swoope both were slow shooting guards playing point guard neither could/can defend without fouling except Jack was right handed and Swoope is left. Jack was a smart player Swoope enjoys shooting (edge 2013) SG Tanner/Santa Anna both lacked ball handling skills Tanner was a pure shooter top ranked recruit by scouting services we ever landed at Elon. Steven was by some scouting services a three star is a streak shooter who can score going to the basket. Defensively Tanner was a good defender because he was long and Steven has hops and can rebound. (edge 2013) Wing Koch/Thompson different players both show lack of toughness or desire to compete. Koch hands down best shooter and taller. Thompson has incredible jumping ability and does rebound but lacks ball handling skills and desire to compete defensively often loses defensive assignment. (push) SF Riley/Tyler both 4 men with similar size. Riley developed into more athletic with physical body but really never liked the paint. Tyler not as athletic but much more fundamental sound player. Tyler has better offensive game with excellent shot and better post moves. Defensively Riley was more versatile but really didn't enjoy guarding low post players. Tyler has a superior offensive game but Riley could manufacture offense with mismatches. I overlooked defensive short comings. (edge 2017) C Troutman/Dawkins are legitimate post players. I must give props to Dawkins for his improvement for even making this a discussion. Troutman has been the best player to play at Elon in my opinion during my tenure of watching games the past decade. He had all the tools. His post moves, drive, shot, rebounding, and a shot blocker everything except a real love for the game. Dawkins has improved immensely since arriving. He has absolutely no vertical jump but seems to love the game and compete. (edge 2013) Bench- My recall may be slightly off without any research: 2013 had Hamilton, Blake, Winters and no freshman played Eddy, Hairston, Dawkins (Eddy should have played) 2017 has Eberhardt, Karolis, Wright and Fuller (both Freshman). No clear favorite (push Conference- The Southern Conference had less talent as a whole but nice teams. CAA has more athletic rosters but quality of product of teams is similar. (edge CAA) Venue - same (push) Alumni crowds- 2013 good crowds but SC teams had created some natural rivalry (Davidson) 2017 no real rivals except UNCG non-conference lack energy but season isn't over and since there is still hope. (edge 2017) Overall 2013 has more talented players and should win but who would say? I feel the 2013 team was a much greater disappointment with all things considered even if the 2017 team doesn't continue to perform well the remainder of the season. This is only one fans recollection interested in your take if you have time to waste like I did. My intentions were not to insult any athlete I am a fan of all Elon players. Go Phoenix
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UNCG
Dec 9, 2017 17:19:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Elon on Dec 9, 2017 17:19:10 GMT -5
Pretty much agree TB. I get that it’s hard to recruit players like Lucas. But my problem is, with 4 more years of experience and the Schar coming on line next year, why is the overall quality of our players/recruits declining and why are our players not developing?
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UNCG
Dec 9, 2017 17:56:10 GMT -5
Post by phightingphoenix1 on Dec 9, 2017 17:56:10 GMT -5
I truly don't understand the regression, in light of starters returning. You would think they would be stronger, tougher, smarter, more savvy, hungrier.... but, this is setting up eerily much like 2013-2014 season. I'm confident that coaches and players will get it figured out - right? Comment on 2013-2014 Elon team compared to 2017-2018 team? I thought I would breaking down and compare each position. (Actually took more time than I wanted after I started) Coach- Same As for Coach Matheny, I enjoy cheering for the student/athletes he brings to the University. I find them to be easy to cheer for. I understand players aren't usually pro prospects. I do find myself wishing he would gamble once every four years to bring in a tattooed Duke like character risk to blend with his core recruits? Usually only during the game do I have these thoughts. Then I realize children are on campus and understand character is probably the better option for Elon. Coach Matheny runs a legit college program. I would want my son to play for him. (push) PG Jack I/Swoope both were slow shooting guards playing point guard neither could/can defend without fouling except Jack was right handed and Swoope is left. Jack was a smart player Swoope enjoys shooting (edge 2013) SG Tanner/Santa Anna both lacked ball handling skills Tanner was a pure shooter top ranked recruit by scouting services we ever landed at Elon. Steven was by some scouting services a three star is a streak shooter who can score going to the basket. Defensively Tanner was a good defender because he was long and Steven has hops and can rebound. (edge 2013) Wing Koch/Thompson different players both show lack of toughness or desire to compete. Koch hands down best shooter and taller. Thompson has incredible jumping ability and does rebound but lacks ball handling skills and desire to compete defensively often loses defensive assignment. (push) SF Riley/Tyler both 4 men with similar size. Riley developed into more athletic with physical body but really never liked the paint. Tyler not as athletic but much more fundamental sound player. Tyler has better offensive game with excellent shot and better post moves. Defensively Riley was more versatile but really didn't enjoy guarding low post players. Tyler has a superior offensive game but Riley could manufacture offense with mismatches. I overlooked defensive short comings. (edge 2017) C Troutman/Dawkins are legitimate post players. I must give props to Dawkins for his improvement for even making this a discussion. Troutman has been the best player to play at Elon in my opinion during my tenure of watching games the past decade. He had all the tools. His post moves, drive, shot, rebounding, and a shot blocker everything except a real love for the game. Dawkins has improved immensely since arriving. He has absolutely no vertical jump but seems to love the game and compete. (edge 2013) Bench- My recall may be slightly off without any research: 2013 had Hamilton, Blake, Winters and no freshman played Eddy, Hairston, Dawkins (Eddy should have played) 2017 has Eberhardt, Karolis, Wright and Fuller (both Freshman). No clear favorite (push Conference- The Southern Conference had less talent as a whole but nice teams. CAA has more athletic rosters but quality of product of teams is similar. (edge CAA) Venue - same (push) Alumni crowds- 2013 good crowds but SC teams had created some natural rivalry (Davidson) 2017 no real rivals except UNCG non-conference lack energy but season isn't over and since there is still hope. (edge 2017) Overall 2013 has more talented players and should win but who would say? I feel the 2013 team was a much greater disappointment with all things considered even if the 2017 team doesn't continue to perform well the remainder of the season. This is only one fans recollection interested in your take if you have time to waste like I did. My intentions were not to insult any athlete I am a fan of all Elon players. Go Phoenix Tommy Boy, thanks for the comments...good assessment. My thoughts, however, are directed more toward future player/team development, not really comparing the two teams. Various things can cause a team full of returning players to not perform at the level of the previous year's team, but I start to question why this is starting to look like a pattern. Still VERY early... so hopefully, in conference, they will live up to their pre-season expectations. Go Phoenix!
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UNCG
Dec 18, 2017 13:26:07 GMT -5
Post by ElonHoops on Dec 18, 2017 13:26:07 GMT -5
UNCG beat NC State and the score doesn't really show how much they dominated at times...very impressive win. Elon's lose, while ugly, does not mean this year's team can not be a 20 win team. Each year in the CAA, the team has increased total wins and conference wins...who in their right mind can argue that the program in headed in the wrong direction? Next year looks like we have three solid recruits coming in as well.
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UNCG
Dec 19, 2017 12:43:54 GMT -5
Post by A Friend on Dec 19, 2017 12:43:54 GMT -5
Plenty of opinions again regarding the program. The general consensus seems that everyone wants the program to do well and everyone wants Coach Matheny to be successful. My frustration deals with the program's growth, or average/mediocre growth at best.
The last post states that the program has made improvements. In some respects, it has. But how long does it take to develop a consistent, winning program? Five years, ten years, twenty years? Coach Cignetti has figured it out in ONE year. Coach Charlette Smith has figured it out in FOUR years (Her teams have been winning and in tournaments the past few years). This is year NINE for Coach Matheny, when will the team take the next step to being a consistent winner?
I did not hear Coach Matheny make the statement that he recruits "shooters" for his system. If this is true, IMO, this the crux of the team's problems. Shooters cannot become athletes, but athletes can become shooters. Regardless of how well you can shoot, an athlete will be able to stop a shooter, but a shooter cannot stop an athlete. We need athletes.
I measure growth by more than winning and losing. Were we competitive in a game? Have we eliminated or improved upon our weaknesses? Are we able to meet challenges as they arise? This is where I don't see any appreciable improvement with the team.
Any team which plays Elon now has the formula to stop us. Extend your defense to contest perimeter shots. Double-team Dawkins in the low post. Keep a body on Seibring. Pressure the ball to get steals or turn-overs. Our philosophy regarding game approach needs improvement. If we are pressured on the perimeter, get the ball into the post. Run some triangles to get closer shots rather than 3 point bombs. Utilize back door screens and cuts to get more lay-ups or easy buckets. Attack the rim (Too many easy shots missed by being passive at the rim). Use a zone to protect players in foul trouble. Call time-outs to stop negative momentum. I could pick apart each game and show where subtle adjustments could have lead to a better outcome.
Some have said we need better players. A school always wants to get the best player possible. But even with better players, if they are NOT PROPERLY USED, we still have an issue. Why recruit big men if you don't intend to use them? Why not recruit all guards/shooters? We have had players in the system who were not used correctly (Blake, Hairston) We need to stop blaming the caliber of the players for the sins of the coach.
It is my hope that the players will mature ASAP and right the ship. Right now,I am not convinced that Coach Matheny will make the needed adjustments to make the team more competitive. Coach Matheny will stick with the system, regardless of the outcome. The players will need to recognize what is needed and just do it.
I want the team to win, be successful, make everyone proud. Is that too much to ask for?
Everyone, please have a Merry Christmas and a safe New Years.
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UNCG
Dec 19, 2017 13:22:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by fc4life on Dec 19, 2017 13:22:47 GMT -5
You left out another way to beat us. Just play Zone Defense. We have no idea how to attack it. It’s one of the most frustrating things to watch. We just pass it around along the outside and jack up a three.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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UNCG
Dec 19, 2017 13:50:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 13:50:25 GMT -5
UNCG beat NC State and the score doesn't really show how much they dominated at times...very impressive win. Elon's lose, while ugly, does not mean this year's team can not be a 20 win team. Each year in the CAA, the team has increased total wins and conference wins...who in their right mind can argue that the program in headed in the wrong direction? Next year looks like we have three solid recruits coming in as well. I'm obviously missing something. To which three are you referring?
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UNCG
Dec 19, 2017 20:23:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Elon on Dec 19, 2017 20:23:33 GMT -5
UNCG beat NC State and the score doesn't really show how much they dominated at times...very impressive win. Elon's lose, while ugly, does not mean this year's team can not be a 20 win team. Each year in the CAA, the team has increased total wins and conference wins...who in their right mind can argue that the program in headed in the wrong direction? Next year looks like we have three solid recruits coming in as well. Thinking this team will win 20 games is delusional. Yes, G beat NCSU. They are definitely better this year. But dude, we’re returning 5 starters and they beat us by 31. We will not win 20 games and we will finish no higher than 6th in the CAA. I REALLY hope I’m wrong. But I’m not.
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UNCG
Dec 19, 2017 21:19:19 GMT -5
Post by Dougie on Dec 19, 2017 21:19:19 GMT -5
I agree with you, Elon. It is actually insulting to suggest 20 wins for this team. We have not a complete game yet and it is Christmas. Another dumpster fire tonight against annother mediocre team. This season is really depressing already
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UNCG
Dec 20, 2017 7:29:09 GMT -5
Post by euphoenix99 on Dec 20, 2017 7:29:09 GMT -5
UNCA won by 7 at UNCG last night.
Go Phoenix!
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UNCG
Dec 20, 2017 9:19:28 GMT -5
Post by Tommy Boy on Dec 20, 2017 9:19:28 GMT -5
I agree with you, Elon. It is actually insulting to suggest 20 wins for this team. We have not a complete game yet and it is Christmas. Another dumpster fire tonight against annother mediocre team. This season is really depressing already Elon would have to go 13-5 in the conference for 20 win season? Our team could be a realistic 2-8 vs D-I schools. Fortunately we are 5-5 and 2-0 against D-III. We seem to have pulled out close victories except for Milwaukee like the football team which could have easily been 2-10 on the season but were 8-4. I haven't watched the last three basketball games my biggest lapse in ten years only observed results in box scores so no input. I am covered up for Friday's tip also so make it four games missed. Good luck Phoenix!
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