Delaware to FBS

[eu96]

As expected, Delaware is leaving the CAA in 2025, and joining C-USA. They have been lobbying the Sun Belt seems like forever, but I guess they gave up and have chosen to join the worst FBS conference there is. But it’s still a step up from FCS. BTW..there is now a rumor that Liberty might soon make several jumps and join the American. And Charleston is in talks to join the Atlantic 10.

The CAA is quickly becoming a crappy neighborhood. I hope our new AD keeps all options open.

[euphoenix99]

I've been a defender of Elon in the CAA, but I think the next few months are going to be telling if it remains the best option. If/when CofC departs, it looks like High Point could be the replacement. I simply don't want to be in a conference with them. The problem is there aren't really any good options left in the south that would be willing to join. Even Hampton and A&T already appear to be in over their head.

I still think the best path for Elon is remaining aligned with W&M and Richmond (football). They will be two sought after schools if any movement does occur. There are rumors that a conference in the south is reaching out to CAA teams. Wondering if the SoCon is trying to capitalize on the instability. A return to the SoCon with W&M and Richmond football would actually be a good lineup.

SoCon East: Elon, W&M, Richmond/UNCG, Citadel, WCU, VMI
SoCon West: Furman, Wofford, ETSU, Chatt, Samford, Mercer.

It actually sets up well and makes a lot of sense. Also has us playing W&M, Furman and Wofford regularly.

Problem is W&M and Elon love being able to play in front of their northern alumni and prospective students.

Anyhow, not concerned about Delaware leaving, but I am concerned about what a southern core would look like if CofC, W&M and Richmond were to find new homes without Elon.

Go Phoenix!

[eu96]

Yeah, not really excited to be in a conference with Mommouth, Hampton, Bryant and Stoney Brook. Doesn’t exactly exude “big time”.
Would love to see Elon, W&M and Charleston leave for the A-10. Us and W&M would stay in the CAA for football. But I don’t think they are going to let us do that.

BTW…surprised that UNCG appears content in the SoCon. They have great facilities, really good programs across the board and over 20,000 students. There was a time that I’m sure they probably wanted to join the CAA. Those days likely have passed.

[epx]

I was originally a proponent of Elon moving to the CAA, the one with JMU, Delaware, George Mason, COC, UNCW, etc. I actually like having A&T as a conference partner and I think they'll figure it out. However, Hampton and Bryant seem to be extreme mismatches. I very much like the idea of having a conference composed of Elon, W&M, UR, Furman, Mercer & Samford. If ETSU, Citadel, WCU, & UTC want to come along for the ride, that's cool. If we have Furman, Wofford would have to be included. The same goes for the Citadel and VMI. Not too excited about UNCG. They would be better in the Big East or elsewhere. If anyone has contact with Jenn Strawley, It would be nice to know where her head is on this issue.

[eu96]

No offense, but I really don’t want to be in a conference with Citadel, VMI or A&T either. Elon needs to read the tea leaves and grab a seat at the big(ger) table and start looking upwards, not lateral. If that means FBS needs to be investigated, so be it. I know a lot of you think it’s a pipe dream, but it’s not. It might end up being a necessity
if we want to continue to play D1 sports. If UR and/or W&M make the jump, then we have too as well. The new FBS fee of 5 million (up from $5000)…not a typo..is a problem however.
At the very least, we need to find a better conference however, even if we have to stay FCS for the foreseeable future

[eu96]

And I will bet you a weeks pay that the new AD didn’t think the CAA was were we belong when she took the job. You know she is looking..and hopefully talking.

[euphoenix99]

Maybe I'm just too small-minded to see all of the possibilities, but I feel like there's at least 20 other teams on the A10 list before Elon. They tend to focus on basketball first schools. And those that do field football teams are basically Pioneer league teams with the exception of Richmond. I'd be all for it, but I just don't see it happening.

Re: FBS, the only place to go is Conference USA and Elon would be like a fish out of water. All of our other sports would probably suffer as well because of the added expense of FBS.

My ideal Elon scenario is competitive FCS football with peer schools and championship contending basketball and baseball. Let's just not be complacent (see volleyball).

Go Phoenix!

[epx]

Nov 28, 2023 12:36:47 GMT -5 eu96 said:

No offense, but I really don’t want to be in a conference with Citadel, VMI or A&T either. Elon needs to read the tea leaves and grab a seat at the big(ger) table and start looking upwards, not lateral. If that means FBS needs to be investigated, so be it. I know a lot of you think it’s a pipe dream, but it’s not. It might end up being a necessity
if we want to continue to play D1 sports. If UR and/or W&M make the jump, then we have too as well. The new FBS fee of 5 million (up from $5000)…not a typo..is a problem however.
At the very least, we need to find a better conference however, even if we have to stay FCS for the foreseeable future

No offense taken. Honestly, I don't really care for VMI, I'll give A&T the benefit of the doubt for the time being and if we become in some shape or form part of the SoCon, The Citadel WILL be a part of that. Frankly, I don't care that much for Wofford either, but I digress. I see all of this as dreaming, especially the part of going FBS. With which conference will we go? Travel alone will eat us alive no matter which conference we join. I think what should be done with regard to moving to FBS is commission a study and go from there.

My personal opinion, (dream), is that Elon, W&M and UR should leave the CAA & join the SoCon. That's probably the most realistic, (with the exception that UR will never leave the A-10 and W&M will never leave UR). With that in mind I like the East & West SoCon Idea:
SoCon East: Elon, W&M, Richmond/UNCG, Citadel, WCU, VMI

SoCon West: Furman, Wofford, ETSU, Chatt, Samford, Mercer.

except I'd like to see UNCG move on to the Big East where they belong. And PLEASE no more Hampton's, UNCW's, HPU's or COC's.

[fc97]

#1 - No way Elon goes back to the SoCon. That bridge was torched and too many of the burned ADs are still there.
#2 - What benefit does W&M or Richmond have with sticking with Elon?
#3 - Hampton is an ok choice for CAA, but, Bryant was the real mistake. They'll replace Delaware with someone like Howard.
#4 - FCS is now a joke. Its roughly what D-II was, and the bottom of FBS is what FCS was. After 40 years, its basically right back to where it was.
#5 - A conference in the south is reaching out to CAA members. Assuming it is the SoCon is laughable. Could be OVC who needs schools, could be the A-Sun who needs members, could be OVC who needs members, or after UNCW, or the MEAC wants A&T and Hampton back.

There's nothing in the FCS except a money pit. The loss of FBS money games is going to hurt. The way I see it is the two choices are, figure out a way to go FBS or drop football put our eggs into basketball and aim for the A-10.

[eu96]

Exactly my point. FCS is circling the drain. It might be in 10 years or so non-FBS will not be classified as D1. Everything about college athletics has changed, and will continue to change.

[phawkes]

Nov 28, 2023 21:08:29 GMT -5 eu96 said:

Exactly my point. FCS is circling the drain. It might be in 10 years or so non-FBS will not be classified as D1. Everything about college athletics has changed, and will continue to change.

You're right, 96, about change.  My question is, what's driving the change(s)?  Is it really just money?  Is it the ADs?  Top leadership?  Media?  The fans?  The sports culture?  Some combination of these?  Something I'm missing entirely?

Another question, is(are) the change(s) generally for the better?  For the athletes?  For the schools?  For the fans?  Surely not for the competitiveness?

Over (a long) time, my interest in various sports has waned, due in part to the changes I've observed.  It started with the NBA, then MLB (a travesty of its former glory, the James Earl Jones Field of Dreams speech is no longer a valid analysis of baseball--I mean miked players in-game/on-field, stop watch for pitchers/batters, replay of ump calls? gimme a break), then college basketball, then the NFL (the only game I watched last year was the Super Bowl).  I'm still a CFB nut, both FBS and FCS (because of Elon).  10 years might be an optimistic estimate, 96, given the ever-accelerating rate of change in so many areas of society.

Curmudgeon rant concluded.

Go, Phoenix!

[euphoenix99]

Nov 28, 2023 21:01:46 GMT -5 fc97 said:

#1 - No way Elon goes back to the SoCon. That bridge was torched and too many of the burned ADs are still there.
#2 - What benefit does W&M or Richmond have with sticking with Elon?
#3 - Hampton is an ok choice for CAA, but, Bryant was the real mistake. They'll replace Delaware with someone like Howard.
#4 - FCS is now a joke. Its roughly what D-II was, and the bottom of FBS is what FCS was. After 40 years, its basically right back to where it was.
#5 - A conference in the south is reaching out to CAA members. Assuming it is the SoCon is laughable. Could be OVC who needs schools, could be the A-Sun who needs members, could be OVC who needs members, or after UNCW, or the MEAC wants A&T and Hampton back.

There's nothing in the FCS except a money pit. The loss of FBS money games is going to hurt. The way I see it is the two choices are, figure out a way to go FBS or drop football put our eggs into basketball and aim for the A-10.

I see this "Elon burned a bridge and all the ADs hate them" rhetoric over and over. I know the SoCon was not happy about Elon's exit and how it was handled. But if that animosity is as strong as everyone says it is, why have we scheduled home and homes with Wofford, Furman, Citadel, WCU and ETSU in football? We continue to play UNCG, Furman and ETSU in basketball. We've played Citadel, UNCG and WCU in baseball. I'm not saying Elon will go back or that the SoCon wants them back, but it's the most logical option for Elon if the "CAA South" falls apart and would be mutually beneficial for all involved.

In what way has Hampton been a good add? Makes me question the rest of your analysis. I'm probably the biggest proponent of Hampton on this board having grown up in Hampton and having a soft spot for that program. But outside of football and basketball they are fielding teams that barely qualify as D1. Even football and basketball were bad in year one and not off to a great start in year two. I want them to be a "good add" more than anyone, but other than being close to W&M they aren't adding any value.

Lastly, what does FCS "dying" look like? I can't argue that powerhouse programs are leaving or have left, but not everyone can move to FBS. Are 100+ teams just supposed to just stop playing football? FCS has always been perceived as DII, so in that regard nothing is changing. I suspect you'd have to explain to most people that the Sun Belt and MAC are on the same level as the Big Ten and SEC.

Go Phoenix!

[fc97]

Rant starting.

This is much how I feel. When Elon embroiled itself into a number of political positioning against the state a few years was the start public change in stance. Gone are the days of the small, more conservative school associated with the United Church of Christ.

My interest in college sports started to drop with the rampant FCS move-ups and seeing the types of schools moving up from D-II. Elon and Gardner Webb were way ahead of the game with some of the other schools like Charleston, UNCG, Charleston, Jacksonville St, Samford. The floodgates were opened with the crazy amount of lower tier academic and sports schools moving up to grab a shot at march madness. Then take just the sheer amount of shifting around that are openly killing rivalries and conferences.

Then the NBA went political and NFL, and I stopped caring about those and then MLB went that way too. The NHL is tried to right itself, but not before I wrote them off too.

So now, for sports, Independent Leagues are where it is at. Hockey it is SPHL and FPHL, Baseball it is Frontier, AA, Atlantic League but alas there is no option basketball and football.

[fc97]

Nov 28, 2023 22:40:34 GMT -5 euphoenix99 said:

Nov 28, 2023 21:01:46 GMT -5 fc97 said:

#1 - No way Elon goes back to the SoCon. That bridge was torched and too many of the burned ADs are still there.
#2 - What benefit does W&M or Richmond have with sticking with Elon?
#3 - Hampton is an ok choice for CAA, but, Bryant was the real mistake. They'll replace Delaware with someone like Howard.
#4 - FCS is now a joke. Its roughly what D-II was, and the bottom of FBS is what FCS was. After 40 years, its basically right back to where it was.
#5 - A conference in the south is reaching out to CAA members. Assuming it is the SoCon is laughable. Could be OVC who needs schools, could be the A-Sun who needs members, could be OVC who needs members, or after UNCW, or the MEAC wants A&T and Hampton back.

There's nothing in the FCS except a money pit. The loss of FBS money games is going to hurt. The way I see it is the two choices are, figure out a way to go FBS or drop football put our eggs into basketball and aim for the A-10.

I see this "Elon burned a bridge and all the ADs hate them" rhetoric over and over. I know the SoCon was not happy about Elon's exit and how it was handled. But if that animosity is as strong as everyone says it is, why have we scheduled home and homes with Wofford, Furman, Citadel, WCU and ETSU in football? We continue to play UNCG, Furman and ETSU in basketball. We've played Citadel, UNCG and WCU in baseball. I'm not saying Elon will go back or that the SoCon wants them back, but it's the most logical option for Elon if the "CAA South" falls apart and would be mutually beneficial for all involved.

In what way has Hampton been a good add? Makes me question the rest of your analysis. I'm probably the biggest proponent of Hampton on this board having grown up in Hampton and having a soft spot for that program. But outside of football and basketball they are fielding teams that barely qualify as D1. Even football and basketball were bad in year one and not off to a great start in year two. I want them to be a "good add" more than anyone, but other than being close to W&M they aren't adding any value.

Lastly, what does FCS "dying" look like? I can't argue that powerhouse programs are leaving or have left, but not everyone can move to FBS. Are 100+ teams just supposed to just stop playing football? FCS has always been perceived as DII, so in that regard nothing is changing. I suspect you'd have to explain to most people that the Sun Belt and MAC are on the same level as the Big Ten and SEC.

I'll admit, Hampton probably makes sense from a fan following and better academic standing among HBCUs. It's more of a nostalgia opinion.

The CAA move made sense at the time. I was a big proponent of it. Our attendance increased and fan following to away games increased due to where alumni is. But, losing Delaware and JMU changes the conference image. I have to think UNCW and Charleston are prime to be picked off. All it takes is losing Villanova in football, or the northern group of football schools dropping out to make this the Big South II. So the question becomes, what was the mission in moving to the CAA (Colonial) that doesn't equal CAA (Coastal); does any move in conferences hurt recruiting; can we afford the CAA exit fee and another conference entry fee; any move needs to make sense.

The CAA is at a turning point. Robert Morris went back to NEC. Replacement options are limited. You can get a Howard, St Francis/CCSU, or you can get a Gardner-Webb.

When App, GSU, Charleston, Elon left the SoCon the SoCon appeared to be at risk. UTC/WCU were at risk of going OVC, the public vs private debate was at an all-time fever pitch; bringing ETSU back was contentious; but I will hand it to them, they have maintained stability throughout the disaster that was the OVC, CAA, Big South, A-Sun, MEAC.

The FCS contained a lot of tradition and notoriety until the mass move-ups from D-II and below in the last 15 years and the mass move-ups to FBS that killed many of the traditional rivalries. I agree with the question of what is driving the changes in college sports altogether. Is it name association. Is it marketing. Is it competition level. Is it a mix.

I will agree with one thing, the SoCon comment. The SoCon commissioner that we burned is long gone. We've been playing all the schools. Our AD and President that made the choice are long gone.

So the question is, what does Elon do. Stick around in the CAA because the footprint makes sense? Stick around with Richmond and William and Mary where I question why would we (in the world of everyone backstabbing everyone else to get one step ahead). Do we go back to something stable like the SoCon.

College sports should have been clubs with schools having relationships. Instead, this trash heap of backstabbing is what we got. This is the Baby Boomer/Gen X world we live in.