|
|
Post by notafanofhomer on Nov 23, 2014 22:39:51 GMT -5
This thread has taken a turn... It will get fixed... but lets all get back to reality- This is Elon- not some landmark program like Delaware, JMU, etc who have won National Championships. Lembo turned the program around-y and themade the playoffs just once. Swepson basically stole money for 3 years -did not understand how to recruit FCS level players and you are seeing the product of that this year...
I can see where uneducated ppl can bash this staff and this team.. It's easy, they won one game- I get it... but please stop with " we should have been more innovative in the play calling! or Why didn't Lough get some burn"?
Let me break it down:
No Run Game- when the D is dropping 8 and rushing 3 it limits your playbook on O
Young wide receivers who struggled getting out of routes and getting separation
Qb had less than 2 seconds to throw a ball on every down. By the way- he played with a torn muscle in his shoulder and a burst bursa sack- if anybody in practice looked like a starting QB besides him-they would have played... the dude was beat up all year and kept fighting. Yeah he made some mistakes but he wasn't the main problem...
|
|
|
|
Post by whoanellie on Nov 23, 2014 23:19:53 GMT -5
This thread has taken a turn... It will get fixed... but lets all get back to reality- This is Elon- not some landmark program like Delaware, JMU, etc who have won National Championships. Lembo turned the program around-y and themade the playoffs just once. Swepson basically stole money for 3 years -did not understand how to recruit FCS level players and you are seeing the product of that this year... I can see where uneducated ppl can bash this staff and this team.. It's easy, they won one game- I get it... but please stop with " we should have been more innovative in the play calling! or Why didn't Lough get some burn"? Let me break it down: No Run Game- when the D is dropping 8 and rushing 3 it limits your playbook on O Young wide receivers who struggled getting out of routes and getting separation Qb had less than 2 seconds to throw a ball on every down. By the way- he played with a torn muscle in his shoulder and a burst bursa sack- if anybody in practice looked like a starting QB besides him-they would have played... the dude was beat up all year and kept fighting. Yeah he made some mistakes but he wasn't the main problem... Stevie Wonder could see this!!! This is not bashing it is simple evaluation of of 3-21 program over the last 2 seasons but more on what We can expect to rebuild this program to respectability. and for the record We do hang 2 national championship banners, and you can debate that with the Alums who won them. Let the rebuilding begin by getting the ones who want to win an opportunity to get them better. |
|
|
|
Post by trianglephan on Nov 24, 2014 10:16:58 GMT -5
This thread has taken a turn... It will get fixed... but lets all get back to reality- This is Elon- not some landmark program like Delaware, JMU, etc who have won National Championships. Lembo turned the program around-y and themade the playoffs just once. Swepson basically stole money for 3 years -did not understand how to recruit FCS level players and you are seeing the product of that this year... I can see where uneducated ppl can bash this staff and this team.. It's easy, they won one game- I get it... but please stop with " we should have been more innovative in the play calling! or Why didn't Lough get some burn"? Let me break it down: No Run Game- when the D is dropping 8 and rushing 3 it limits your playbook on O Young wide receivers who struggled getting out of routes and getting separation Qb had less than 2 seconds to throw a ball on every down. By the way- he played with a torn muscle in his shoulder and a burst bursa sack- if anybody in practice looked like a starting QB besides him-they would have played... the dude was beat up all year and kept fighting. Yeah he made some mistakes but he wasn't the main problem... You make alot of valid points that no one here has disputed... no run game, young receivers, young o-line, little time to throw... thus all the more reason to try and mix it up. Case in point, the Osborne throwback pass to Quinn on Saturday worked to perfection. Definitely not a standard play and caught them off guard. Why not try some wildcat offense (coppedge, andre, kierre...), jet sweeps, mis-direction, tight end passes, etc.. What is there to lose? As for Quinn, I don't think anyone said he was the main problem. He was clearly our best option at QB this year and deserved to start. We all saw what he could do last year with a better o-line and healthy backs. He kept a positive attitude and gave his best effort with limited options this year. That said, why not give a 3rd year back-up QB a chance to get valuable experience in blow-out games late in the season? At least going into next season you would have some experience at QB even if he didn't become starter. As for implying Lock was not talented enough to see the field, I respectfully differ. Coach Skrosky seemed to think highly enough of Lock during last spring and this year's fall camp as he waited to name his starter until midway through fall camp. Quoting Coach “ ‘Lock’ has some inherent traits,” Skrosky said. “He’s impressed us. He’s a real bright kid. He’s as hard a worker as we have in our program. He studies the game and enjoys studying the game. “And Mike’s work ethic has really impressed me. I think he’s had a good summer. They both had good summers, and at the end of the day there’s never anything wrong with competition.” Those words alone would seem to imply he is at least deserving enough for a little mop-up action late in the season? |
|
homer
Elon Only
Posts: 583 
|
Post by homer on Nov 24, 2014 11:10:45 GMT -5
You're right, Triangle.
If anyone criticizes Quinn's heart or determination, they haven't been watching.
And, going into the season, Loughery seemed to be on fairly even keel with Quinn. So why didn't he see any playing time? First off, let's assume the coaching staff isn't a collection of morons. Then, there has to be a compelling reason for them to sit him. He's got the strongest arm on the squad, I think all would agree. He's got a high QB IQ, at least in practice and on paper. All this would be reasonable arguments to get him some snaps.
So something has changed the coaches' minds. I don't profess to know what happened. Nor do i expect Skrosky or Van Zile to say anything in public to offer any illumination. "We thought Quinn would give us the best chance to win, compete and learn as a team, so we kept him in there." That's what the coaches would say publicly. But something dramatic had to have happened. You don't go from strong contender to untouchable without something profound happening.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 12:26:11 GMT -5
I'm not trying to step on any toes here and I can't think of any player or coach on the 2014 team that I don't sincerely like. Also, this is all MY opinion. I'm not a coach and other than playing football nearly half a century ago, I have no credentials other than a keen sense of observation and pure objectivity. I also think the players over the past 4 years have largely gotten the shaft, especially the 5th year seniors.
So, MY opinion is that the QB position was the most visible issue this season. We had other problems including an undersized and under-experienced OL, injured RBs and a receiving corp that had a bad case of the dropsies. So QB certainly wasn't the only problem, but IMO, it was the biggest. The simple reason Quinn started versus Loughery was Quinn's "bad" was much better than Loughery's "bad". Loughery had some traits that were better than Quinn's. Leadership was probably one of those traits. Our primary and secondary RB's were out due to injury. We also had receivers that were very sure handed last year that for some reason were having problems holding on to the ball this season. Mike could have been better this year with a little more time. He was constantly on the run this season. There is no doubt that our offensive line was out manned and undersized this season. (This should be a little better in 2015 but will likely still be a problem). BUT, given a QB with the ability to play more instinctively: to go through at least a couple of progressions quicker and knowing when to tuck the ball and run, this season would have potentially had 4 possibly 5 wins, all other things being equal.
Wes Pope had the same issues in Lembo's first year. One big difference was Terrell Hudgins, but we had an undersized OL and no run game that year too. Yet in a SoCon that at that time was just as strong as the CAA is now, (maybe stronger), we managed 2 wins. We beat Chattanooga and Western Carolina. We also beat a down A&T, Presbyterian and a ranked Coastal Carolina. The biggest difference from the previous year was Wes Pope versus Kye Hamilton.
I'm certainly not saying I'd have done anything different this year. I feel Quinn was our best option too. I think Skrosky not playing Loughery more says three things: 1. Skrosky went with his best QB option. 2. Skrosky wanted to be loyal to his senior QB. 3. There was no reason to give anyone else currently on the team any PT because it would have involved a burned redshirt AND a pure pocket QB will not be a starter next year.
I'm still a Skrosky backer. I think he has a solid feel for what it will take to win at Elon. And, I will certainly give him at least as much time to turn things around as we gave Swepson to screw things up.
|
|
|
|
Post by notafanofhomer on Nov 24, 2014 18:54:39 GMT -5
All good points- I don't really think there was a QB competition this year. I have no intel on what happened but I would guess Skrosky was trying to do 2 things- make Quinn earn the job outright, and keep a serviceable backup from transferring before the season starts...
I apologize for not referencing the NAIA National Championships... no disrespect there - I was more or less referencing the last 30 years. Elon is building its academic profile, endowment, facilities, which will lead to a better program... We got lucky with Riddle ( Elon Family), Hudgins transferring from ECU, and a few other players that were overlooked by FBS schools... I hope Skrosky and staff continue to find the diamonds in the rough like he did with Mellette, B Ward,nolan ward,Jeffcoat, Cam mcGlenn, Walker White, Rodney Austin, etc....
The future is bright fellas- because it can't get much worse.
|
|
homer
Elon Only
Posts: 583
|
Post by homer on Nov 24, 2014 19:16:11 GMT -5
All good points- I don't really think there was a QB competition this year. I have no intel on what happened but I would guess Skrosky was trying to do 2 things- make Quinn earn the job outright, and keep a serviceable backup from transferring before the season starts... The future is bright fellas- because it can't get much worse. I think you're right (in spite of your handle). It's the only thing that makes sense. But now he's in that position because Loughery certainly knows he's not in the plans. Right? And I think the future is bright in spite of the present status. Already can't wait for spring practices. Lotta guys better be lifting big time between now and then. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 10:04:47 GMT -5
I want to believe that over time Elon will be competative in the CAA, I just don't seeing it being anytime soon. Someone made a good point in another thread, asking if Skrosky was as good of an OC as everyone thought he was? Or if it was just that he had two special QB's during his Elon & Ball St OC days. I find myself wondering if Elon should have stayed in the SoCon and at least won a few conference titles, won some FCS playoff games, been a playoof team year in and year out, established themselves as the team to beat in the SoCon and then made the jump to a conference like CAA. There is nothing wrong with being top dog in a weaker conference like the SoCon compared to the CAA. Nothing wrong with it at all. You just have to make sure that you are the top dog in a weaker conference, before you jump to a better conference. App and GSU didn't jump to the FBS level after having 2-3 bad years in the SoCon. They established themselves for years as two of the best teams in the conference, before moving up. Elon wasn't even a contender before they decided to jump to a better confenrence. No surpise that they are in dead last place at 0-9 in the CAA, on the last week of the regular season. I find myself defending the school on this board constantly. Let me just say that it pi$$e$ me off just as much as anyone on here that we just don't seem to be able to find our way in sports, primarily football, here at Elon. It REALLY pi$$e$ me off that our administration would do something so dumb as to hire an inexperienced, arrogant position coach as an experiment, (or for other more ridiculous reasons which I won't assert here), at a school who's alumni donors see as being football first. I don't pretend to know all of the inner workings of the AD department and the Administration with regard to our teams. But, it seems that we have undergone a convoluted path toward getting football righted here at Elon. Seagraves was good & then he wasn't, so we hired Hamilton, (which seemed like a bad idea at the time to me). Hamilton was horrible, so we then hired Lembo, which turned out to be a great decision. Then we hired Swepson. Enough said there. Then we hired Skrosky, which to me seems like another tremendous hire. There just seems, sometimes, to be a lack of a clear cut vision of what we want to be. Had we gone for the good hire to replace Seagraves, Maybe we wouldn't all be biotching so much now. Maybe. But, we are where we are. Given all the missteps over the past two decades, things could be worse. And, at the end of it all, I love Elon. As an alumnus and donor, I only want the best for Elon, so I defend when I believe we've done something right. IMO the move to the CAA was right. If you believe the move to the CAA was all about sports, football or otherwise, you're wrong. It was a business move. Honestly, given the dynamics of college conferences over the past few years, we had to move when we did. Waiting would have cost much more both financially and opportunistically toward "moving" into the market we serve as an academic institution. The timing sucked with regard to our death spiral in football over the last three seasons. The athletics department is having to live with that faux pas in the form of sorry attendance and apathy toward the football program now. But again, waiting would have cost more overall. Regardless, we are where we are. Hopefully in three or four years, with a clearer vision of where we need to be by the Admin., we'll be competing for championships in the CAA. Withdrawing our support now will only impair the effort. |
|
|
|
Post by phoenixfc on Nov 25, 2014 10:31:39 GMT -5
Well said, fightinchristian.
|
|
fc97
Elon Only
Posts: 646
|
Post by fc97 on Nov 25, 2014 13:14:46 GMT -5
notafanofhomer, don't forget that John Taylor single handedly saved one of Hamilton's seasons from being even worse.
fightinchristian, you forgot Chad Nkang in there too, as well as Mike Warren.
Hart had some early D-II success, but again, I feel like he was thrown in a bad spot from going NAIA to D-II without being given the full resources. We were descent most years under him, but not great.
Seagraves was a good coach for D-II and was put in a bad spot moving to D-I. As first he did well. We have talent running a triple option offense and a lot of the FCS school weren't used to seeing that type of setup (GSU was running a form of it at the time, Wofford was also new). But after a few years of playing the same schools, they found ways to prepare for the triple options better. Plus, it was like Seagraves was lost in trying to find the next level up in talent over D-II.
Hamilton to me had a ton of potential. He seemed to have some good success with less resources at ETSU. He recruited decently (more on that later) but just hung himself on wanting to play his son. Remember Hamilton was the one that put Nkang on defense, that was a good call. And I think the fact that Hamilton recruited decently helped translate to some of Lembo's early success.
Lembo, without a doubt, a great coach and motivator. I think Lembo got out at the right time, because the enxt year was going to be struggle.
Swepson not only couldn't coach, but didn't hire the right people and couldn't recruit. Have heard multiple local coaches say that they banned that Elon coaching administration from talks with their players at stadiums. Heard the offered and pulled offers, etc. Swepson depleted the already depleted bucket.
Skrosky inherited a mess. I honestly think next year is going to be as big of a problem as this year unless we get some transfers in. There is no quick fix here.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 14:28:09 GMT -5
^^^ Yup
|
|
|
|
Post by keepitreal on Nov 25, 2014 18:09:57 GMT -5
Watching Quinn's running touchdown against JMU (not the pass reception) off a fake handoff was bittersweet at best, considering what might have been this year (and even last year too). That run was nothing special and could have been done anytime and many times this season (and last year too). On the positive side, if one or two drives in each of the NC A&T, Delaware, Towson, W&M and Maine games ended in a TD instead of a FG attempt or INT we'd be 6-6 and feeling pretty good about things. Having a QB willing to run like Connor Christiansen waiting in the wings will only make things better next year. Cheer up folks, signing day is only a couple of months away!
|
|
|
|
Post by elonforever on Nov 25, 2014 22:20:34 GMT -5
Sorry in advance for such a simple thought but does anyone else find it ironic that as bad as our offense was this year the season literally ended with an Elon touchdown.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 12:51:47 GMT -5
When I make a birdie on the 18th hole in a round of golf, that one thing, regardless of the 18 hole score, is what really makes me want to come back and play again the next week. Hopefully, ending with a positive will encourage the team to work hard in the off season to come back and prove something next year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 13:31:50 GMT -5
Watching Quinn's running touchdown against JMU (not the pass reception) off a fake handoff was bittersweet at best, considering what might have been this year (and even last year too). That run was nothing special and could have been done anytime and many times this season (and last year too). On the positive side, if one or two drives in each of the NC A&T, Delaware, Towson, W&M and Maine games ended in a TD instead of a FG attempt or INT we'd be 6-6 and feeling pretty good about things. Having a QB willing to run like Connor Christiansen waiting in the wings will only make things better next year. Cheer up folks, signing day is only a couple of months away! I agree that QB mobility for our style of offense could have made a real difference this year, especially given the porosity of our offensive line. However, to be a contender in this league, our OL has a long way to go. We really need some 6'4" - 6'6" 300 pounders with decent footwork. If I were Connor Christiansen, I wouldn't be counting my chickens just yet. He may be mobile but he looks frail and I wouldn't say his arm is any stronger or more accurate than Loch. Just because his recruiting video looks good doesn't mean he'll do well against a UR or Stony Brook defense where every single player including the line is faster than the fastest player on that recruiting video. Not to mention that, position for position, they are much bigger and stronger too. If Connor is smart he will bust his behind in a big way to get bigger, faster and better over the offseason. My bet is that Skrosky is looking hard right now to find a QB on par with Riddle and/or Wenning. It wouldn't surprise me if he got someone of three star caliber to decommit from another program with the promise of competing for a starting position as a freshman first year player. We can't use the "F" word anymore, right? |
|
